Josh: Hey, Jen, great to see you

Jennifer Kahl: Great to see you. 

Josh: I know, right? Have we met in person ever?

I don't think we actually have. That's amazing to me. I feel like we have, but we haven't. Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: because I think we hit it off right away. So I felt like there was instantly that,, alignment and connection. And yet it's been,

I think, four years, maybe now that we've known

each other and yet to meet in person, 

Josh: , I'm thinking about like when we met each other and you're saying like, we hit it off right away. What about that? Stood out , What was that like?

Jennifer Kahl: was because you and I were both trying to do some problem solving and relationship building, um, some with my team and some with your team. And I think just our general philosophies aligned right away that, we were in it to find, a favorable solution for [00:01:00] everyone that we came in with respect. For everyone involved and, really just wanted to, have everyone have a voice too. I think that's something that you and I have in common, having everyone a time to voice what they need.

Josh: Yeah, on my side I know that , I've had, clients in the past that they feel that getting the most upset is the way to get the best results. And we've been very intentional with building our company that we don't want to work like that.

And we don't want to work with partners that act like that either. And so it was really nice and refreshing to , get on the phone with you as we dug into, , these hotels have some concerns and here's what's going on. And for me, I get excited. Because I want the feedback. I love the feedback.

 I actually went to Commonwealth [00:02:00] conference this year and gave a talk on finding the joy in discovering the problems. So as a GM and as a director of sales, . , we should be on this kind of creative discovery of , Oh, yay, somebody complained, right?

, cause it gives us insight in where's their friction and what's not working. And yeah I remember like getting to do that with you and like that you and I hopped on a bunch of different calls with every hotel and talked to every person to really pull out. Okay. Here's the key themes and here are some of the underlying root causes of issues.

And like you said, it's not the, it's not the work itself that's being done or the results that are happening. It's. It's how someone has felt through the process.

 If they don't feel heard or if they don't think you are worried about what they're worried about that turns into anxiety for people, right?

Like it gets bigger and bigger. You and I vibe [00:03:00] on that because we're coming at these situations without a heightened level of anxiety, ? We're coming at it with a calm let's figure out what's going on and see that, , like you're saying, everyone.

Is treated with care and respect through the process. And let's make it better than it was.

Jennifer Kahl: Right. I always find it humorous when people say, , take the emotion out of it or it's not about feelings,

but really it is because

we're dealing with human beings. Right.

And it's usually it's

Josh: Right. 

Jennifer Kahl: once you allow people to have that voice and maybe share a little bit about what they're feeling.

That, Hey, what you have to say is important. so I, I think emotion is good. I think emotion is good in business

because I mean, especially hospitality, About the delivery of the experience for our guests. Right. So that's emotion. So I think

emotions are good.

Um, And I

think that

problems that pop up [00:04:00] allow us to grow as well and learn from them. 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: emotions.

Josh: Yeah. I just recently read this book, By a late rabbi named edwin friedman and it was called failure of nerve it's a bit of a leadership book and he's saying, oftentimes, when you look at families businesses congregations of any type, that the problem that is happening is the anxiety of that group channeling through one person a lot of times.

And this is all leadership and all business is about response to emotions.

Um, I think like what you're saying, leave the emotion out of it, but everything is emotion. And so what he said is, the work is oftentimes find the two strongest, most resilient people in the group that are, having the hard time and [00:05:00] help them focus on what he calls self differentiation.

So, how can they stand stronger? How can they be more in themselves? How can they not have an emotional response to other people's emotional response? So, so that's something I've been doing personally. Yeah. As a parent and as a leader I'm thinking more and more about this is I am going to allow you to have your emotional response and, And that doesn't mean I need to pull, be pulled down into it with you.

It's important that I can give you the space to have that. And like you're saying, help you be heard. And for you to know that I'm not going to be impacted when you're feeling that way, like I, like we can still move on. You can have your tantrum and now we're going to still get in the car seat and go to school.

 there's this. of , when a leader does take up their space, it [00:06:00] starts to solve some of these other kind of , chronic anxiety within the group I tend to do that, I'll get in it with you and then I can get upset with you or feel what you're feeling.

But then nobody's helping, lead us out of it and somebody needs to stand up, that's something I've been like, 

Jennifer Kahl: does. 

Josh: and thinking about lately.

Jennifer Kahl: that takes, , empathy into account, right? , hey, I can be, as vulnerable, right? As

Josh: Yeah. Right.

Jennifer Kahl: you

are right now to understand Feeling. Plus, I think it helps

as a leader, like, if you can be that vulnerable and transparent, right? Like, hey, I've been in a situation like this.

And then, what I always like to do, too, is, um, like, let them have their moment, right? And then say Like what is in your control? Like you can't control what someone else is doing, but you can control how you react to it. So what's the healthiest, less stressful way to respond to this in the future? It all goes back [00:07:00] to letting people be their individual selves, right? Especially when you're in a business situation we hire this amazing talent, ? At every company I've worked for. So at White Lodging, we have some of the highest caliber of people in operations, sales, marketing, revenue. So let them be those individuals and don't try to, hinder who they are or. Put boundaries, let them thrive. And part of that

is just let them be them. 

Josh: Right, right. give people the space to be themselves and be at their best. And like that, having the freedom to do that in your own way, like then,

Jennifer Kahl: Yes.

Josh: You end up getting better results than if you try to completely control the whole situation.

Jennifer Kahl: Yes.

Works with kids too. I mean,

Josh: Yeah, Mine are now adults

Jennifer Kahl: One married and

one getting married, but

I always wanted them to be very proud of who they were. ,, just be your individual self and be proud of that.[00:08:00] 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: very fortunately, I have very healthy, happy, successful adult

children. 

Josh: We should have another whole other chat about that, but I think, it's the same as what we're talking about. As you and I have dug into things together in the past, and even in current projects that we work on together, the being able to think differently about things, give people the space to accomplish like the end result without needing to manage all of the finer details, for us to be trying to control.

Yeah I definitely think about that a lot with my kids. It's so much more important that they're. Confident and that they can sit with themselves and that they don't need other people's fee validation to know what they think is the right decision. We go to the same coffee shop every Saturday, my three year old like pays with the credit card.

And he'll go up and order food. , how do you help [00:09:00] build that confidence in a safe environment where it's better and easier to fail and get back up and keep. All of that builds resilience. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

Jennifer Kahl: Well, I

think, too, that kind of doing things differently, probably is why like our partnership transferred from Commonwealth over to White Lodging, right? Because

you had your business model that you were currently using and we had used at Commonwealth, but when I came back to White Lodging, like I had different needs. And instead of us

saying, Good luck. . You asked me like,

what's a gap that you have, or you

need a need that you have that maybe I can help you with. And it just from there because it really didn't take

long to get to where we are today. And I think that was because we had that trust already built, right? A [00:10:00] successful partnership. And that we constantly are looking on ways to not only improve ourselves or improve our leadership, but to have a bigger impact when we can.

Josh: Right now you're leading sales for four properties white lodging hotels in Whiskey Row. 

Jennifer Kahl: So, it's the whiskey row hotel collection and then also we have a home with suites just down the road, but the whiskey row hotel collection is made up of an autograph collection hotel and then a loft and. Okay. Moxie, as well as Repeal Steakhouse, Zombie Taco, and Corner Restaurant. So it's very much a especially when you look at hotel distil very refined, very lifestyle, very boutique experience we just actually were mentioned as

the Stay by Condé Nast Louisville, when you're coming down for a bourbon tour and said, this is the

place to stay.

And then

actually Marriott Bonvoy. Recognized Hotel De Stijl [00:11:00] as one of the nine most unique weekend stays in the world. So

we were properties in Spain out of nine hotels all over the world, we're one of them. So that's been a lot of

Josh: That's amazing.

Jennifer Kahl: Yeah. So that's, again, like, I think because autograph

collection is so unique too, and not confined. And you can 

Make your bark and make it unique. That it's probably why the team and I have thrived so well there is because we're constantly doing new things, reinventing ourselves to

stay relevant and top of mind.

Josh: . So part of what I'm trying to do with this, these conversations, this podcast is the hotel is such a complicated business and there are so many different pieces to it that I'm trying to peel back some of the layers and untangle the, ball of yarn here for folks, because there's so many hotel folks that they only know.

One [00:12:00] piece of the business, . Or people from the outside of, they're so interested in the hotel business, but it's, there's just so many different pieces to it that I'm trying to better , unpack what is going on, like within the space of hotels. And so far I've been talking to owners and understanding what it's like as an owner. , how do you buy a hotel? How do you raise a fund? How do you get money to build a hotel? How are you doing that in a way that makes money? And you're the first one that I'm digging into more as a hotel expert of like how you actually fill the hotel.

How do you run one? . You own a hotel. How do you actually start filling it up? You've got to have people to fill the rooms. And I think part of that is obviously you come up with a retail strategy, you have. Pricing that is publicly available. But something I think people know less about is that there's [00:13:00] usually a large group of people that work for a hotel or a group of hotels that is

a sales team filling rooms in ways that like you can't fill just from the retail business that's

showing up or booking online And so I'd love for you to just give a broad overview, 

of how that works for in your scenario with Whiskey Row.

Jennifer Kahl: Yeah, absolutely. I think the approach when I took this project on for white lodging was To have all the key stakeholders, and so when I say the key stakeholders, I'm not talking at an ownership level necessarily, but the people that are running the hotel day to day 

People that are marketing the hotel, the people that are, taking care of the guests, like those are the key stakeholders.

So the key department heads all have to be aligned, right? So sales and 

Fill the rooms, right? Event team and the operations team has to deliver the [00:14:00] experience. And then if that's not aligned, then it becomes much harder. Because reputation management is so huge, so it's very important about what our current guests are saying about us.

And if we're selling one thing or marketing something and the experience is something different, it's very challenging to keep filling those rooms. So, I think a lot of the success came from getting everyone in a room and really talking about , what did we want Hotel De Stijl to look like, , what was a refined experience, because that's our thing, because bourbon, refinery, all 

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: to say , this is what luxury means to me. This is what a boutique hotel to me looks like. And then we talked about like how do you actually execute that and do we have the right people in the right roles. 

Josh: Within that then what does a refined experience look like? Where did you land on that? [00:15:00] Yeah,

Jennifer Kahl: like that evoked feeling, that evoked emotion, right? So we backed it up and said, , how do you feel important when you are in a restaurant, it could be a hotel, it could be where you shop for clothes, whatever it is, your coffee shop, , why do you shop at those places or go to those places?

And what it came down to is that it it played some kind of importance in your memory or made you feel special. So it evoked an emotion. So we talked about for a hotel stay, what would make it memorable for you? So it's great. We can have the, best hotel, best beds, best restaurants, all those things.

But if, if the warmth isn't there, if the surprise and delight isn't there, then we're just a commodity. So we talked about , For example, I'm checking in for a birthday weekend, right? And I happen, the front desk, he asked me why I'm here and I'll say, Oh, I'm celebrating my birthday. [00:16:00] And then obviously the warm, happy birthday, that kind of stuff.

, but what would be the surprise . By the end of the night, I had a birthday card from the general manager, . With, a cupcake or something from the chef that a card signed for a bunch of the team members, wishing a happy birthday, that kind of stuff.

And I think a lot of that kind of special touches were lost during the pandemic. . So it was more that survival mode, let's get people checked in. We are short staff to now, ,

On delivering an experience that Making an impact and that was really I guess the tipping point for it was getting people like oh Okay, you're right like we're not you know in survival mode We can take a breath we can engage with our people We can take time to look through the myriad profile to find out if there's anything special we could you know

Do whatever we can to make an impact and so

you know we started doing that from an operations side You

Josh: I love that. I [00:17:00] also imagine that at white lodging and at your properties like that, if we're all aligned on here's what a refined experience looks like, or how we want to evoke an emotion, then you say, okay, you're free to go and do that the way that you. See fit then it's , so important that you're bringing back in sharing those stories with each other so that , we know how we're like doing it and it encourages everyone else now my eyes are looking for , okay, where can I deliver a refined experience? How's like, where's the next chance for me to do something like that? And it's , it's just this like cultural, like flywheel that you create. 

Jennifer Kahl: And, and to be honest, 2021 2022. It was tough because we had people that were either. Jobs were eliminated during the pandemic, or they work through the pandemic and it wasn't easy. And then our customers coming back, our guests coming back. We're dealing with that kind of pent up having not been able [00:18:00] to travel or live the life the way they wanted to live.

So you put those two things together and it became a tough environment to be successful in because

guests were stressed, the team was stressed. So really breaking 

Some training and helping them with some coping. , if you have an upset guest about something, like, how do you diffuse it?

How do you not, let it ruin your day, kind of thing. And it took some 

That. And for people to feel comfortable to do some things that maybe in the past they thought, was over the top or not within their scope. To actually say , no you can 

You can do that.

Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I sidetracked us a little bit, but we were talking about, how you got in, And we're focused on as a

leader here in this group, how do I align, the day to day stuff with what we're selling and making sure that's positioned [00:19:00] and aligned so that guests know what to expect and are delighted when they get it. 

 And so it sounds like all of that marketing work is working like you said, you've been listed for Conde Nast and even Bonvoy of a top destination, I'd like to understand on the sales side, the ways in which you are filling rooms.

I would assume one is looking for business accounts that would bring business to us on a regular basis. And we probably negotiate a specific rate with them. And we're looking for those accounts probably like in the middle of the week because we get this other weekend stuff that's more leisure. So I would guess that's part of what you and your team are doing. And then you have probably like events how do we manage, how we fill the hotel up with event type business. What else? , what are the things that a sales team is doing and what kind of business does that bring into the hotel that 

Jennifer Kahl: yeah, so we took a little bit [00:20:00] different approach, so probably a little bit more non traditional, which is my MO. I don't like to do things traditionally. so we took a look at who we wanted to be and who were the customer profiles that would help us get there. And when I say that, it's breaking it down from a corporate business type of position, and I'm going to use Hotel De Stijl as an example again,

It's a small boutique property. It's not inexpensive. So we knew that you would be looking at, director and above type of positions in the corporate world. And we took a look at some of our resources there and we specifically targeted building a client base and working with those companies that would have the need for hotels for that kind of director level and above.

What's nice, it's nice about us being part of a market and a collection is that then we could also fill in [00:21:00] maybe your more entry level that were a little bit more price conscious. or short term stays 

Jennifer Kahl: In for a night or people that were coming in for training that wanted longer.

So it cascaded into different areas for us that ended up benefiting all of the hotels in the collection. And then we took a look at it from a social perspective. And I really appreciate some of the mentoring that I've received from Lisa, who owns Mightily. here in Louisville. She did an exercise with us that was , if you were building a Facebook profile for Hotel De Stijl, like who would be your friends?

? So we started digging into who were the people from a social aspect? Because one of the things I was tasked with, was to make it the number one hotel in Louisville. And so we had some tough competition with that. So who was it that we needed to befriend? And build relationships with to get us to that.

So then that was at a higher level myself and my director of sales, Matt, [00:22:00] that we and Lauren, our director of marketing, we started networking events and building rapport and using resources to then get ourselves in front of customers that would be doing the more social. And that started to build up our weekends.

But, and then it was funny, it actually ended up helping our corporate too, because you're having, your daughter get buried at Hotel Distil, and the mom also runs, a major corporation in downtown Louisville. Guess where she also then starts to do business with us.

Josh: Yeah, 

Jennifer Kahl: So we did that. 

Josh: OK. 

Jennifer Kahl: Really understanding who your guest is, and then deploying people appropriately, And giving them the tools and resources.

Belong to a lot of different organizations in the area as well. And it was really important that we, what we didn't want to do is we didn't want to be transactional. And I think that's a mistake make. It's that, , I'm selling them [00:23:00] something Let's close this business and let's move on.

But we want to look at the lifetime contribution of a guest. And so, that can come from Bonvoy or that can come from, Hilton Honors, or it can come from, too, the relationships that you continue to build off of. And we really focused on that part of it, and it's led to a lot of great success.

So it's not your tradition. I mean we have booking goals for our 

Josh: huh. I love 

Jennifer Kahl: action plans

You know we have all of that, but it really goes down to 

We're said we were going to do are we starting that? Experience the guest is going to remember from the very first phone call into the sales office To them walking out the door after a fantastic business meeting or 50th birthday celebration So, again, the non traditional way.

. It seems like, I've has been three and a half years in growing prosper [00:24:00] and we support over 350 hotels at this point in different forms. And there have been times where I'm trying to grow the company that I'm like going at it directly.

Josh: Right. Right. Right. , and I'm just . Making phone calls, sending emails, like to strangers, and trying to like close business. And it doesn't work like either. I get, I get it, get somebody signed up, but maybe they're not a good fit. It doesn't work as well for them or like that, they're not the customer that's really aligned with our values.

 It seems that the growth, needs to happen indirectly and as a source of the relationships that you build, you The value that you add the ways in which you are serving. So all of that

builds on, and then is so sure for us, it's .

Provide a great experience. And then that person without us asking says to somebody else, [00:25:00] Hey, you should call prosper because , they've, done wonders for us. . That's. That's the business that I want. And it's so much easier to close than trying to convince someone , that's a stranger that doesn't know who we are. So I'm learning about sales, as we grow this thing and I hear what I agree. I'm learning the same thing that you're saying, which is how critical it is. To get the growth is a result of efforts that you do in building relationships and serving the community.

Jennifer Kahl: All right. And it might not work for every type of sales position, but again, , because of 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: that we're in, it's so relationally 

Josh: Yep. 

Jennifer Kahl: do business with who they like, if you can build that relationship and people like doing business with you, it makes it so much easier for them.

And it's so much easier for us on the other side too. So that when we do say Hey, , do you have someone within your company that you recommend that I could speak to that might also have meetings? They're like, Oh my [00:26:00] God, yes. Let me connect you via email. ., not that we don't

try to re solicit past business, because we do, are asking them before they leave the hotel, can we book your next meeting?

. And it sounds like for you, in the quest of, , how do we become the number one hotel in Louisville, , that's something you can't go at directly either.

Josh: It's about finding the ways to add value to be to earn that place.

 Recently you talked to the mayor into letting you close the street down, 

tell me about that.

Jennifer Kahl: So, I've been to a couple events with an incredible company called Outstanding in the Field that does this farm to table experience where you're sitting, in a Vineyard in Tuscany. And you're sitting at a table with 200 people, and, you're eating the food from the local farms and drinking the wine, and it's an incredible experience.

, we tried to do it with them in Louisville, but they didn't really have the resources to do it. So I was like, well, I still want [00:27:00] to do something similar. And what we felt like we needed was something that would highlight Louisville and, A greater way that we're more than just bourbon.

We're definitely more than just horse racing in the Kentucky Derby. Like, Louisville is a great place to live. There's a great art scene. There's a great food scene. Like, how do we bring all these things together? And we realized that this would also be a great thing for the city of Louisville to promote.

Because we're constantly 

In whether it's, new citywide events or a new corporation Louisville is a great place to live. So getting a corporation to move, their headquarters here. It's important So this really played into what the city of Louisville is trying to do and it was also an opportunity For us to help elevate the city of Louisville and get them on the map with a few different that maybe hadn't been highlighted before.

So we just put together a pitch and said , we want to shut down Whiskey [00:28:00] Row and do a dinner for 200 people on main street. Repeal's going to do, our steakhouse is going to do the food, Hotel Distil our executive banquet chef's going to do the food too. We're going to partner with bourbon and wine.

Organizations here too, and we're going to have the, we're hoping to have, we don't have them yet, Louisville Symphony, Louisville Ballet an artist, we want to bring all of that together for an evening in October on Whiskey Row. So right now we're working through all the permits and we're getting partners and everyone that we talked to is really excited.

We found an artist that's going to paint the dinner as it's actually happening. And then we'll auction off the painting. And it'll go to a charity that we will partner with. So if you've ever seen Andrea Botelli, That was the other inspiration.

 I've been to a couple of his concerts and he incorporates all of the arts.

So here we're doing a similar thing. So I'm taking like the best of Outstanding in the [00:29:00] Field, the best of Andrea Bocelli, and making it local here. And 

GM of Hotel De Stijl, Casey. She's fabulous. Lauren, my marketing person. Matt. And then the executive chefs of both distill and repeal.

So it's taking everyone. And then the mayor gave us his blessing and his support. And so, yeah, it's exciting. 

Josh: That is not in your job description at all, right?

You're just saying I love these things and , I loved this dinner experience and I loved this other art experience

and This need let's do something crazy.

Let's do something interesting. I can tell that's something that's coming from within you and

 I know that the hotel will benefit from this and , you'll see a lot of great results, but there's no telling like what kind of results will come from this specifically, 

Jennifer Kahl: hopefully, like 

Josh: Yeah. I 

Jennifer Kahl: memories for people louisville has, a little bit of a tough past that they're still trying to keep [00:30:00] both, come back downtown. A lot of, civil unrest and. It was very challenging during the pandemic. And yeah,

Jennifer Kahl: There's more nonprofits in Louisville than any other major city in the United States. So it's like a city with a big heart. And again, people don't necessarily see all that. So, if we can get people

here to experience it and feel the love of Louisville I think it would have some long lasting impressions for people.

Josh: Yeah, I love that and you're not from Louisville

Jennifer Kahl: No, I'm 

Josh: like you 

Jennifer Kahl: a Michigan girl.

Josh: So this is something you have taken on being there, I think there's something to learn there as well. . Is as someone from the outside, people will say, I'm moving into a new market but you move to a new city, you're getting to know the place and understand the heart of it and doing what you can [00:31:00] to , become a part of who they are more than saying , I have, A, an agenda or

I, I'm going to come and, just sell rooms in a market that I'm new to, you are becoming part of that culture and then seeing the needs and trying to serve those needs in a way that is like uniquely yours.

Jennifer Kahl: I have to say, when I've been to the city, moved to Louisville, I've immediately had some incredible women just came in and lifted me up and made sure I was, going to the right events and meeting, the people that could help me and support me. Something that like, I've never really experienced from a new city that I've moved to.

And from some just incredible people and they didn't have any hidden agenda either. They just said , We want to help you because we want you to be successful, ? And it was Nothing 

Josh: they find you? Or [00:32:00] like, how did you find them?

Jennifer Kahl: It's really funny. It started with Sonja, who was the executive vice president of the, of Louisville tourism.

And she was in having lunch at my repeal restaurant 

 You know how, you and I just hit it off, like Sonja and I hit it off. And she's , Oh, you have to meet my friend Lisa. And she's like, I'm going to set up the for wine because I made it very clear that I don't drink bourbon.

So we went to and had wine and like Lisa and I hit it off right away. And I said, Hey, do you know anybody that needs a sub ladder or are leasing office space because my sales team I'm building. We don't have enough room in the hotel for them. And she's like, well, actually I need a sub letter and I'm right next door to your hotel.

And so it's just spiraled from there. So then we moved into the space with my friend Lisa. So we're right next to the hotel and makes this very , easy to do hotel business. And then it just, again, then Sonia introduced me to other [00:33:00] women and they were like, how can I help you? Who do you want to meet?

What can I do to make you successful? And then we have a great local owner too. And he sat me down within my first week and he's like, I'm here to help you be successful. Any roadblocks you have, you let me know anyone you want me to introduce you to, let me know. It was just

The top with people welcoming me.

And like you could 

Love. I mean, I don't know if that's the right business term, but just the love and support , so this is my chance to do the same thing.

 And giving people the chance to connect and have the ability to ask for what they need. .

Josh: I hear that in this story that you're sharing as well is. A lot of us, we're not taking the shots or the fact that you walked up to , this person introducing yourself that none of this other stuff would have happened. And , because they've been so supportive, you felt. Open enough to , ask [00:34:00] about this need, same with you and I, right? Because we have this relationship for me to ask, Oh, is there anything I can do to help? And how could I help? And , for you to have that idea, Oh, I could use your help with building out a group housing team that those things don't happen unless we're building the bonds that then you can with each other ask for the things that you need 

Being, willing and able to help solve things.

Jennifer Kahl: , and also having that ongoing dialogue and open communication, ? Because didn't know what group housing was going to look like, and it was brand new to white lodging, and the concept of it being fully remote and a third party contract, , it just, that was all new. And fortunately, I have a long history with white lodging, so they trusted me, ?

I had to trust with you, I trusted you, and then we,

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: I gotta give a shout out to Matt, because he did a lot of this work, 

, these are the key things that we need done, this is important, these are the systems, , he did more of the [00:35:00] the day to day stuff.

I think you and I were big picture, and then he got more involved with you with giving you more

details of what it actually looked like, and yeah, to this day it's working.

Josh: Absolutely. Is there anything else that we should talk about that we haven't talked about today?

Jennifer Kahl: I just feel like reminding people to try to do things differently. , going back to our industry, hospitality or travel in general, it's a different 10 years ago. So what we did 10 years ago.

on the front end or the back end or in communication or engagement with people.

It doesn't work anymore. So don't be afraid to use your strengths and try some things and do some things differently that 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: okay to evolve and change.

Josh: Here's where I think the problem is with that, and with most hotel organizations is you've got an owner or a management [00:36:00] company that's saying, here's

your That you need to hit. And and then you need to prove to me that you're, doing all of the efforts to get to that number.

So

then I'm going to ask every week for a status update of the number of calls you made, the number of emails you sent, the targets and the prospects this becomes a pattern that then I'm trying to just stay safe and So I'm going to do what you're telling me to do. And I get so caught up in the activity.

I lose sight of the

vision. .

try to encourage people to think about first principles and also to challenge their owner or their management company about the first principles, ? So if they say, I need you to make this many calls a week, what are we trying to accomplish?

Oh, , we need business on these days. . Or this. Month is really soft right now so this is now that I know like the first principle of like here's what we're actually trying to accomplish Let me go about that. Let me like try [00:37:00] some things that may be that will help us get there And I'm curious what, how you think about that, how do we help them understand, , I want the same end result as you, and I'm going to work to accomplish that. The old way is not working anymore. So I'm going to go at this in some new ways and different ways. And like, here's what that's going to look like. How would you encourage somebody in that space?

Jennifer Kahl: so I think you have to surround yourself with people that you know, like as a leader, you need to build a team out that has the strengths that you need and maybe not the exact replica of yourself, but bring different things to the table.

And then. 

To let them do what they do best, ?

Which then allows you to tell the story and paint the picture for the investors, 

The owners. When I first sat down 

Jennifer Kahl: Of Distil in [00:38:00] the Whiskey Row Hotel Collection, like the person I was replacing had done a good job, but was, had a very different background than myself. I had also dealt with ownership groups for many years, right?

So I knew what 

Josh: Yeah.

Jennifer Kahl: focus on and really understanding the hotel owner wants to make money, right? The company wants to make 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: but they also want to 

Nine times out of 10, it's not necessarily a flip. So I think if you can hit on, like,

we are going to build up and get to this, position that you want us to be in, right?

And we're going to take 

Steps to get there, and it's going to be a little bit different, but I'm going to keep my communication open with you. I think when people start to get uncomfortable with doing things differently it's because there's not that proactive communication, but I think if you keep people in the loop of the progress that you're making, what you're trying to achieve.

If you're transparent about like, hey, you know what, I tried this, and it didn't work, [00:39:00] and we won't do that again.

However, 

Josh: Yeah. 

Jennifer Kahl: and this worked, and now we're doing this. So I think that proactive communication, as you're trying to show them that you're trying to do things differently. And then I think too, like, if you have examples whether in your past it's good if it's your own examples of where you've done things differently, and you've shown results. 

Jennifer Kahl: That helps with the confidence too. Like I've always taken on the tough projects at White Lodging. I always had the portfolio that was tough and had underperforming hotels and had to rebuild teams. And sometimes it took, a year, sometimes it took 18 months, but we always got them where they needed to be.

And, you just, you got to have 

Josh: that's so good. 

Jennifer Kahl: Communication and you got to support your team.

You have to protect them. So if there's owners

or investors or stakeholders that, are coming to you and wanting results, you don't transfer that to the team.

[00:40:00] You, you need to just let them perform. You hold them to the expectations of what you're trying to achieve, but you can't constantly say I just walked out of a meeting with so and they're not happy with our results. Negative reinforcement doesn't really work in today's workforce.

It's , hey, this is how much further we've got to go. How are we going to get there and how do I help you get there? , what's blocking you from being successful in this area? What obstacle can I remove for you?

And it does, it all falls into place.

Josh: Yeah, that's so good. And I think you're spot on about all of this. You can't have an effective sales team if they're driven by fear. Like they're not

going to be then able to be creative, in the way that you're saying, think outside the box and come at this in a different way. Then , how it's traditionally been done. People don't, you've got to, like you're saying, protect them, help them feel safe in then being creative. Yeah.

Jennifer Kahl: otherwise you're going to have 

Josh: Mhm

Jennifer Kahl: nobody likes turnover. [00:41:00] That's very costly.

Josh: mhm,

And it's back to the emotional resilience and self differentiation, right?

 You stand

strong as the leader and you're helping everyone else then see that and , that. That gives them more of the ability to then go after and be creative and think outside the box. They see that you're doing that with owner and investors and the owners and investors usually if they're already upset or pushing hard, it's because they're stressed or they're feeling like you're saying a lack of transparency and communication.

So the more that you can continue to be that, Source of strength and 

 Providing transparency and accountability and owning the progress and the lack of progress. That , that's very good. Yeah. That's great. This has been super [00:42:00] helpful and I hope we get to do this again soon.

, I look forward to, seeing you at dinner in October. 

Jennifer Kahl: Yes. Once we have the invites I'll make sure that you get one and come as my guest.

Josh: I love

Jennifer Kahl: You and your wife. 

Josh: Oh, I would love that. Yeah. Thanks. Okay.

Thanks, Jen. I'll talk to you soon.

Jennifer Kahl: Alright, take care, bye.

Josh: Bye.​